300 ham'r vs 308

For interested readers, kinetic energy at 250 yards is right around 1,000 foot-pounds, which is generally considered plenty for game like pigs and deer. Price will determine which one gets more popular down the road for hunting use. We want you, our readers, to be able to make informed decisions. And if you are a fan of the 30 cal. If Im looking for a serious medium game hun ting rou nd in the A R 15 platform Id probably just go with the 6.8spc. Different parent case and entirely different dimensions. I ended up getting the Wilson Tactical Hunter 300 Hamr, 18 barrel with 1 X 13 twist. ), I know this from hunting pigs with Bill on his Circle WC Ranch back in 2010, near the tiny town of Cuthand in northeast Texas. smdh. Ergo Ladder Top Rail Cover, 18 Slot, Black 2280FPS WC 300 HAMR case At first I was somewhat doubtful the Nosler 125-grain AccuBond would leave enough room for the powder charge because its a relatively long plastic-tipped boat-tail, but it worked fine. All it takes is a barrel change. So it costs less, weighs less, and you can put the upper on any AR15 lower. The first legitimate attempt at this was the 6.8 SPC. Good news is, the ammo shouldnt be difficult to get. Learn how your comment data is processed. of energy advantage over the .300 BLK at the muzzle. Im sorry Tom but Ive tried to post a link directly to it a couple times now without success. No animal Ive shot with the 300 HAMR has needed a follow up shot. The recommendation for a broadside shot is 1,200ft/lbs delivered, which limits you to close range only. This is the stripped-down, lightweight hunting rig that Bill keeps strapped to his Kawasaki Mule or in his vehicle when hes around the ranch for hog eradication. If you want to fire a subsonic .30 caliber round from an AR-pattern rifle, the 300 Blackout is infinitely superior. With a 130gr round, drop was significant, a little over 40. Ive been working up a load with these 150gr Fusion SP I got cheap the past 2 weeks. I love the round. If they open up the round to everyone, it might take off with people who are not looking for suppressed action and closer range hunting. I have a lower i have been building and now know what it is going to be. 110gr Barnes TSX #30835 Mule Deer in the Midwest. America's Ultimate Shooting Sports Discounter, Click to share on Facebook (Opens in new window), Click to share on Twitter (Opens in new window), Click to share on Pinterest (Opens in new window). Do not exceed the highest velocity listed for any load and do not substitute any other component for those listed. I have done 15 twist Ham'r barrels and 8 and even 5 twist Blackout barrels. I can't remember, I'd have to unlock the ammo cabinet and look at one of the labels on one of the cans. Thats with an 18 barrel, making this a semi-auto rifle that is more accurate, just as powerful, and actually weighs less than my Winchester 1894 lever guns. Thanks for drawing my attention to the 130s. The test rifle was a Lightweight Hunter equipped with a Trijicon 3-9x 40mm AccuPoint scope, one of five Wilson AR-15 models offered in .300 HAMR. Zero issues. Considering this was over thousands of rounds with multiple shooters over multiple days with several different projectiles in 100 degree heat, Id say the rifle passes the reliability test. so you chronographed a match grade round in.300 blackout against a max effort round of .300 hamr of course the .300 blackout is going to be slower most but not all know match grade rounds are NOT loaded to max velocity because max velocity is usually NOT as accurate. The factory 7.6239 in the same barrel length and bullet weight (Winchester 150-grain Razorback XT) develops 2,056 fps and 1,408 ft-lbs. CCI450 There are eight loads of 300 Hamr ammunition currently available from Wilson Combat, and more will soon be offered by HSM ammunition. Magazine Note: Yes, a standard 5.56/.223 magazine usually functions just fine and dandy. of energy at that animal, that means the viability of Blackout as a reliable idea is all about distance, and it also means that its edgy beyond 100 yards with most commonly available factory loads. It had a very cool name, it worked well in the AR-15, it fired a .30-caliber bullet, and it delivered decent supersonic performance. I looked it up and from the Wilson's Combat website the ballistics look really good especially when compared to the 300 Blackout. I was able to consistently ring the eight-inch plate at 400 yards with the Bill Wilson Ranch Rifle from a few different positions. Ugh another caliber for the AR. Maybe they can sell them to all the well to do liberals leaving California, tired of writing this!!! I could also see why Bill had told me that, if I saw a pig, shoot it in the neck and then follow up with a shoulder shot. The Bill Wilson Ranch Rifle package that I hunted with weighs in at only 6lbs 2oz, empty. HAMR cases are 0.040-inches longer than the WT and a whopping 0.260 longer than Blackout. The Nosler 125-grain AccuBond penetrated 8 inches and retained 78 percent of its weight. It was also over 100 degrees, only cooling to the mid 80s at night. Get the same gun made by Colt or Smith&Wesson and pay 1/2 the price. However, Wilson Combat offers 17 loads for the HAMR and since the cartridge was recently approved by SAMMI (Sporting Arms and Ammunition Institute) South Ballistic Research (SBR) now offers two .300 HAMR loads. Wilson Combat has also introduced ve AR-pattern ries for the new chambering: Bill Wilson Ranch Rie package, Tactical Hunter Model, Ultralight Ranger Model, Lightweight Hunter Model and the Ranger Model. Do regular AR pmags and usgi mags work with it? As of now, the downside with the .300 HAMR is that ammunition options are significantly less than with the .300 Blackout. You cant miss with this gun. Wilson Combat recently introduced another tool for feral pig hunting, AR-15s chambered for its new .300 HAMR cartridge, essentially an elongated version of the .300 Blackout. I . CCI450 If I want an iron sighted rifle for hunting medium to large game it will be a lever action in .30-30 (Win 1894) or .45-70 (Win 1886), but for general purpose use for medium to large game with a scope I would much prefer a bolt action .308 (Win M70), which I much prefer to an AR-10 which has inferior handling characteristics. Max load: 24.8gr H CFEBLK And both in Wilson Combat guns. Its got a 308 bolt face. If you would like to save a whole lot of pennies, you can find the 300 Hamr upper receivers ready for purchase on the Wilson Combat website. The pig didnt take a another step. So, at that point, I moved on to the 6.8 SPC and did a lot of work with it, and I killed a lot of hogs and deer.. It moves the bullet faster for any particular bullet weight, and with less powder. If we want to doubt Barnes, then look at the Hodgdon load data for the 110gr VMax: 2474FPS, both 16 barrels. The 300 Ham'r is built in the traditional AR-15 footprint, and uses the AR-15 bolt carrier group and 5.55NATO/.223Rem bolt. Im still surprised at how much I like this stock. However, if you want to shoot through barriers, deliver hard hits, and strike with the most lethal punch you can from an AR-15, at reasonable engagement distances, the HAMR is the answer. It shouldnt be. This is a very odd cartridge for me. WC 300 HAMR case He started working on the hog population at his ranch and in the process tried every AR-15 cartridge he could find, including the .300 Blackout. One more point, and a most fortunate one. We have killed deer out to 150 yards without any problems. The .30-30 Winchester is wonderful cartridge. It is light and extremely well balanced. Just getting caught in a storm can take hours to dry and oil. The .300 HAM'R has a 300 fps velocity and 400 ft-lbs. a real PITA to detail clean an AR after an accidental mud bath. The .300 HAMR is extremely accurate because the twist rate is optimized to work with a set bullet length and velocity. And the Marlin really is a simple gun to take down. In my neck of the woods, Marlin 336s are far and away the dominant lever gun. Any help would be appreciated reading the Hodgon code: I built one when WC first started selling barrels to replace the kids 300bk hunting gun. Ive been testing it for 2 months now. the round has been standardized and Starline makes the casing for it so you can max the loads listed by WC . Survival AR-7 Rifle, Gun Review: Blaser R8 Ultimate Carbon Hunting Rifle, http://cpw.state.co.us/learn/pages/ehu-ch2-l09.aspx, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.30_Remington, https://www.cabelas.com/product/FN-SCAR-SEMI-AUTO-RIFLES/2141219.uts. One of the distinctive features found on this model is fixed carbon fiber wrapped stock, the same kind used I used during my Nilgai hunt with his friggin awesome 458 Hamr. DY, if you are only limiting yourself to the 110gr round, there is little benefit to the 300 Hamr. 2. Magazine Capacity: 5/10/20/30 Rounds The .300 HAMR (center) has a case length between the .300 Blackout (far left) and .223 Remington (far right). I could hear boars fighting and squealing in the brush even before I got to the blind. At the time I had been hunting feral pigs since 1989 in California, Missouri and other parts of Texas. But at this time its still a reloaders cartridge. Accuracy is flat out amazing. CCI450 We had steel every 100 yards, and two benches as well as prone positions to shoot from. However, that caliber has its share of issues, such as a proprietary upper receiver, bolt carrier group and magazine. Now I need to find some places locally to pig hunt. But, its best to get magazines engineered for 300 Blackout. Constructor Private. It is simply a more efficient cartridge. Looking for the ultimate 30cal super sonic in AR15. My furthest runner went 70 yds. And most shots are way closer than that. The dies provided were Lee Precision, which worked fine, produced ammunition with minimal bullet run-out and also included a length/sizing gauge for insuring resized cases would chamber easily. Following as well. 300 Ham'r has slightly higher SAAMI Max Average Pressure of 57,500 psi (transducer) vs 300 BO at 55,000 psi (transducer). Although Ive found Wilson Combats guns to be worth every penny, they do cost more than a few pennies. For most of them, the answer was no. Now for, deer, pigs, or black bear, thats a very different story. Tests of the (left to right): Lehigh 110-grain Controlled Chaos, Nosler 125-grain AccuBond and the Hornady 150-grain InterLock RN in dry newspaper indicated all three will penetrate well on pigs. If you use a standard 5.56 mag, youll reduce the capacity somewhat. Suppressed the 300 HAMR is not overly harsh on the ears. Is the case wider? out of my VZ52 rifle with 20 barrel. so you get an AR-10. The velocity on the 150 grain HC ammunition was 2240 feet per second . It shoots really well and I get sub moa if I do my part. They list both forged and billet upper receivers in several different barrel lengths, ready to ship. I set the stack of paper 25 yards from the muzzle, where impact velocity would be high. Thought a Beretta shotgun was out of your budget? I put far more emphasis on shot placement than energy. Variety is the spice of life, do what you want, but nothing defies the laws of physics. when a .308 will do just fine. I use my 300blk with 110-120 Barnes vor-tx for anything smaller/closer. It uses the same magazines and provides the same round capacity as Blackout also (more on that in a bit). There is a tab or something in these magazines that cause the rounds to not stack properly after some number have been inserted into the magazine. Havent seen one in years. The powders that worked well for the .300 HAMR included Accurate 1680 and Hodgdon CFE BLK. Of course, a muzzle brake or suppressor would reduce recoil slightly more, though the relatively small powder charges in the .300 HAMR will not result in as much reduction compared to larger-capacity rounds. I all so hand load for it . But, for now, a $350 Marlin 336 would be my choice for this variants intended role. Its a real PITA to detail clean an AR after an accidental mud bath, especially with Georgia red clay. seems like a novelty for people with extra money and want to brag. 110gr Lehigh CC #05-308-110-CUSP (our partners at Lehigh Defense designed this bullet specifically for the 300 HAMR to provide extreme accuracy and deadly terminal performance) She aint purdy but theres a reason I like my H&R Pardner. He had determined Barnes TSX bullets designed for the 6.8 were most effective on pigs, especially big boars, and 110-grain TSXs worked very well on the sizeable black-and-white boar I shot that. For reliability, no little bit of the bullet should touch that ridge, and there are some improved designs that incorporate changes in this area. If you love to wear vests? Despite the effectiveness of the 6.8 SPC, however, he eventually believed larger-caliber, heavier bullets would work better on big boars, and eventually ended up stretching the .300 Blackout case about .23 inch. well think of this the .45 colt was designed to kill a horse. Bill took his 45 bull later that afternoon . But I recall it being a couple hundred fps slower than x39. Likewise, the .300 Hamr beats the 7.6239 in a 16.25-inch barrel. muzzle-energy increase. Seems to me that if you are an American you have a social duty to own an M4 Carbine type rifle for militia use in 5.56mm; not a similar rifle that uses different ammo in the same magazines that can blow up your M4 if loaded into it. I built it for killing hogs and deer. Reloading information, taken from the Wilson Combat website, is also included at the end of this article. Because it is limited to lighter weight bullets. The Mission of Cheaper Than Dirt! During the .300s development it became apparent very few powders would be appropriate for the case. The problem with the hunting AR is that a lever action rifle is much simpler in materials and construction. With either Blackout or 300 HAMR, look at the rounds loaded into a magazine box and see that the larger diameter bullet in the shorter case sits down lower, nearer to the follower ridge. Copyright 2023 National Rifle Association, Women On Target Instructional Shooting Clinics, Volunteer At The Great American Outdoor Show, Marion P. Hammer Women Of Distinction Award, Women's Wildlife Management / Conservation Scholarship, National Youth Shooting Sports Cooperative Program, Top AR-15 Chamberings: 8 Great Do-It-All Loads, Lessons Learned From a Ballistician | An Official Journal Of The NRA, Preview: Mission First Tactical EXD Rail System | An Official Journal Of The NRA, Hornady's 6 mm ARC | An Official Journal Of The NRA, Review: SIG Sauer MCX Spear-LT | An Official Journal Of The NRA, First Look: Mission First Tactical Multi Mount, Is It Right For You? When it comes to a comparison between the 300 Blackout and the 300 Hamr, there really isnt one. MSRP: $3,650. But is that enough for yet another cartridge? Devastating. I have used my 16.25 (barrel swap in a DD V7) on 3 deer and was picking out petals for about half an hour. And while were on the subject, what happens if I mistakenly load a mag of these into my .300 Blk? How would this compare to, say, a .224 Valkyrie necked up to .308? Wilson Combat has always prided itself on accurate weapons, and I know from previous conversations that Bill is, in his words, uninterested in inaccurate guns. Already knowing the 300 Hamr is powerful, it was time to see what groups it could produce at distance, so we spent an afternoon on the 1,200 yard range. Max load: 26.5gr A1680 or 27.8gr H CFEBLK Grendel will have better range and lighter recoil out of the same barrel length. After all, the 7.6239 delivers a .30 caliber bullet with almost the same energy as the time-proven .30-30 Winchesters. 125gr Speer TNT #1986 you drop that marlin in a puddle of georgia red clay mud and you got a 5 pound stick, that wont function. Millions of hunters have counted on it to bring down game for over a century, mostly in lever-action rifles. 300 HAM'R vs 6.8 vs .308 Wilson has developed the 300 HAMR for shooting supersonic loads in an AR-15 sized platform. On paper, on target, and on the chrono, the 300 Hamr performs just as well if not better than the .30-30. 2510FPS The Hamr shoots a Hornady 150-grain SST to a muzzle velocity of 2,240 fps with 1,671 ft-lbs. Because it doesnt match the ballistics of the .30-30Win, which the .300Hamr was built to replicate. Congratulations to Bill and his team there. However, from a supersonic standpoint, where rifles are used to stop big critters or bad guys, the .300 HAMR is a much better option. Some of that no doubt results from the excellent Wilson Combat match-grade barrel. I joke, somewhat. Im good with that. so why would you say it took 10 years to come up with this cartridge when its been around for 40 years here??? All I see is benefit from this round and I cant wait for the manufactures to pick this up and make it more mainstream. Seekins Precision will also be making AR-15s and barrels in .300 HAMR. To make matters worse, the neighboring property was flush with corn and the pigs were spending most of their time in the shade and plentiful food supply of the corn fields. With practice and the right load it can hit hard enough to take deer sized game out to 300 yards Im not taking a shot longer than that with the naked eye. While the Hornady retained only 42 percent of its weight, it was the heaviest bullet so it still penetrated 7 inches. The .300 Blackout uses a much shorter (1.368-inch) case compared to the HAMRs 1.603-inch case. This HAMR hammers! Bullet seating was interesting as I had to use my Hornady 300 BLK seating die and "feel" when I contacted the case shoulder without crushing the case. God bless Texas, I love this place, BUTit appears these photos were taken in Australia. More power than Blackout, no matter what, and also no matter what its used for. So, he set out to make a round that would duplicate the old workhorse .30-30 in an AR-15 platform rifle. Wolfe Publishing Company | 2180 Gulfstream Suite A | Prescott, AZ 86301. Wilson Combat has achieved what many before them have tried. Former gun slinger, current gun writer. Not as tight as the 110vmax but a nice load to test on some hogs and see how it does. So same concept as 300 BO, but with more case capacity? Comparing loads with 125-grain bullets, the HAM'R is 331 fps faster than the .300 Blackout and 131 fps faster than the 7.6239 out of rifles with barrels of equal length. Ron Reiber of Hodgdon Powder Company then recommended Hodgdons new CFEBLK powder, which improved accuracy and velocity with less pressure. Velocity range 2450 2500FPS, Speer 125gr TNT #1986/#3725, 2.245 OAL So, the only thing needed to convert 300 BO to the Hamr is the barrel, correct? Or, am I missing something? Are these the new magnetic rounds as shown in pic. So while the .300 HAMR is not a long-range hunting round, it works beyond woods ranges.. Both the 308 and 300 have good kicks as the 300 and the 308 can boast of a force at least 20ft.lbs. If Im not mistaken you still have the full magazine capacity with the 300 HAMR, i.e. Thats a real difference. The result was the .300 HAMR, which is a modified .223 Remington case necked up to .30-caliber. The .300 HAM'R is to the .300 BLK what the .300 Winchester Magnum is to the .308 Winchester. I think a 6.5mm based on the .458 SOCOM case, capable of using the heaviest bullets without seating them past the neck would be interesting. 30-30 is effective at short range hunting mostly because of the bullets it uses, which are medium weight for caliber bullets, of very light construction, and most importantly of blunt shape. I can6 find any reason to change from my 6.5 grendel,which is also more suitable as a long range option. Dont listen to the haters, dare to be different in a crowd full of stubby cartridge lovers. As with any new round, how far and quickly options range all has to do with popularity. Their 3 shots at 100 yards were all touching each other dead center. The 300 Blackout is designed to work with lighter bullets . That settled that. Small case capacity with large diameter bullets is not going to equal great downrange performance. Those HPs and FMJs make really shitty hunting rounds. Max load: 27.5gr A1680 or 28gr H CFEBLK It is therefore understandable that more modern firearm designers would look to the .30-30 as a model for effective ballistic performance. Surely we will get some other manufactures making .300 Hamr uppers and there will be some budget options available. Do not attempt to imitate anything contained herein.The best way to keep up to date is to join m. The five .300 HAMR models offered by Wilson come with barrels from 16 to 20 inches long, and all but one has a threaded muzzle. #3. These have become the new go-to for me over the past couple of years. A bullet to the spine usually drops a pig in its tracks. not a similar rifle that uses different ammo in the same magazines that can blow up your M4 if loaded into it. @ $29 a hundred & $250 for barrel WOW THATS NOT HIGH , LOOK @ 6ARC BRASS OR GRENDEL BRASS + BARREL!!!!! His son Ryan suggested reusing HAMR, a perfect double entendre for a pig-hunting round. The muzzle energy they produce is still 250ft/lbs less than the 300 Hamr or the .30-30Win. Spend $3,700 on a gun to shoot ammo that you cant find . Mag. Theyve already sold a lot more than 20. But I absolutely agree, YAY options! Contrary to what a few shooters assume, the 6.8 SPC is not the 5.56 NATO/.223 Remington necked up. No, you dont. Armor-Tuff Finish applied over Mil-Spec Hard Anodized Upper/Lower Receivers (Green/Black Standard Forest Camo Optional) Velocity range 2500 2600FPS, Lehigh 110gr CC #05-308-110-CUSP, 2.245 OAL Lancer, Magpul, and D&H Tactical all make 300BLK magazines. Last fall proved the cartridges high performance on Tennessee whitetail deer. The information provided here does not represent the views of Cheaper Than Dirt! The AR is relatively light, quick to shoulder, has a high capacity, shoots pointy bullets, and options abound for doodads and whiz-bangs. I had a 300bk and I didn't like the terminal ballistics past 75 yards with the same pill. If subsonic shooting is what makes your heart go pitter patter, go with the Blackout; it may be the best subsonic cartridge of all time. It will split market share and drive down commonality of one cartridge and make availability and prices worse for everyone. Round Threaded Match Grade Barrel with Circle WC Ranch Logo I was able to snag 18lbs of CFE Blk last week from Powder Valley, and that should be enough for ~5k rounds. If you want a Wilson Combat in 300BLK, they offer several models, and its one of their best selling chamberings. Even though the HAMR is running higher pressure than SAAMI ceiling-sets for a Blackout, its nowhere close to standard now for 5.56 NATO. If thats true, its a good thing for America. Recoil is virtually non-existent. Nov 25, 2021. We often hear about the average self-defense scenario, but the truth is every encounter is unique. Youll see the 300 Hamrs case length is longer than the 300BLK. Redding also makes dies, and along with the Wilson ammunition, the Hunting Shack in Montana also makes HSM .300 HAMR loads with Sierra 135- and 150-grain bullets. I currently have a 300 HAM'R on order (ordered late 09/2020, told 3 to 4 months lead time, going on 5 months now). Controlled Chaos out of an 18-inch barrel at 2440 feet per seco. I moved slowly and as quietly to the blind as possible, guessing the fighting boars were probably not more than 150 yards away in the thick brush. Like Blackout, it fits a standard .223 Rem. bolt face. Keep your gear handy when it's not on your belt. It just WRECKS whatever it hits. This video is for educational purposes and discussion only. Please read the entire post below before replying. I dont reload but those things matter to a lot of people. You know what they say, the harder you work, the luckier youll get. To rent one for the range costs 2x the usual cost of renting any other gun. Ammunition Available from the Wilson Combat Website, 110gr Sierra HP-V Its not what I would want to lay prone behind all day, but its light weight, shoulders solid and very quickly, and establishes a good cheek-stock-weld for me. Or will it work with pmags? He then shot 3 of the 125gr SBT 300 Hamr rounds. We put the Lehigh Defense Controlled Chaos Bullet to the test. Save my name and email to use for future comments. It essentially duplicates the external ballistics of the .30-30 Winchester, which makes it suitable for most of the big game on the planet at least at modest ranges. I personally havent tested any 125gr yet. WC 300 HAMR case I know, Ive used them. and i can use the same bullet to load in my 3o-06 even if i prefer a little heaver bullet for that . 1. I should first acknowledge my mentors and colleagues from Hacettepe University, where I was working at the time of the initial research: Bahaeddin They gave me great support throughout the research and contributed in different ways to the first draft of the text; I am most . Thats more than the .44Mag delivers from the muzzle, even in a carbine length barrel. of energy, compared to the Hornady Black 110-grain V-Max at 2,395 fps MV and 1,401 ft-lbs. 300 HARM is probably DOA and just another conversation piece for the archive. The 300 Hamr rounds were moving an average of 248fps faster. Dude, youre killing me, thats an article in and of itself. so, they came up with the 7.62X45. https://i.imgur.com/VVE4MgFl.jpg, so why would you say it took 10 years to come up with this cartridge when its been around for 40 years here. Wow cool an AR matching a 30-30 is pretty darned good. It works as advertised, Way out of my price range. What is 300 HAM'R? Start load: 23.6gr H CFEBLK Most take a dirt nap right after the trigger is squeezed. The Wilson Combat .458 HAM'R Tactical Hunter As mentioned, the .458 SOCOM was designed around the AR-15 platform, and to change pressure ratings would require a change in rifle design. Im shooting 135gr FTX bullets from Hornady. Though it was often touted that its supersonic ammunition was the equal of the .30-30 Winchester, hunters soon found out that was not the case.

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